Aleksandr Lobanov
A historian working on the Hundred Years War, my PhD made on the Anglo-Burgundian alliance in 1420-1435.
Location St Petersburg, Russia
Activity
-
Hi Robert! I am not trying to oppose your view but some of your arguements seem weak. The archers had their share in prisoners. May be they would have to sell a prisoner to a noble who would the organise negotiations for ransom, but there was an interest for them in the prisoners they took.
Second there're examples of prisoners murdered: Edward III executed... -
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Colin Biggs
Did Henry really have to ask, that's a good question. Difficult to say about 1415, but after the Treaty of Troyes was made which technically meant the acceptance of his claim to France by the French (some French including the French king), the Parliament proved very reluctant. They said that the English had fulfilled their obligation by helping the king pursue...
-
Hi Roger! The three original Beaufort brothers: John, duke of Somerset, Henry, cardinal of Winchester and Thomas, duke of Exeter were sons of John of Gaunt and his mistress Katherine Swynford. When he married her they were legitimised but without a chance of succeeding to the throne.
-
That's interesting Sam. On the one hand it's difficult to believe that the guns could be used for sharpshooting, on the other hand, we have a good list of notable captains killed by cannonballs: Thomas Montagu, earl of Salisbury (1428), John FitzAlan, earl of Arundel (1435), Pregent de Coetivy, admiral of France (1450), Jacques de Lalaing (1453) etc.
-
Hi Astrid! It still took some time to make the gunpowder artillery powerful and mobile at the same time and this happend towards the end of the fifteenth century. Here's a paper on the artillery development which I found extremely intersting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl_R7Hxb61o -
Thanks for sharing this Martin! And good luck with exploring Agincourt 600!
-
Worth asking Astrid. But Ghillebert de Lannoy was certainly worth some ransom (and eventually had to pay it), but if we believe his account he only by lucky chance saved his life.
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Frances Hart
Thanks for sharing Frances! And I also hope that some archaeology will emerge to give us more detail.
-
Hi Francis! I think there are no stakes before the three English men-at-arms divisions. But a good question anyway.
-
Good question Linda! In my personal opinion how the stakes were placed may be one of the most lacking pieces of information on what was going on. I can only hope that there will be excavations which may discover some traces.
-
Hi Edward! In the Napoleonic age some heavy cavalry were wearing cuirasses and there were steel breastplates used for trench warfare in WWI and by the Soviet assault forces in the WWII.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Bib
So never fully forgotten. -
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to [Learner left FutureLearn]
Many thanks for your comments Michael, it was a pleasure responding to your comments! Hope you can still recommend the course to your friends. And possibly one of them may wish to buy a certificate...
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Alison Cox
Many thanks Alison and Jean for your participation!
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to David Mathews
Thanks David! May you enjoy this talk on Robert Southey and Agincourt (or rather his Joan of Arc). That's from the Society of Antiquaries Agincourt event in 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNZs-IN5Gsc -
Hello Roger! He was not yet raised to dukedom by 1415.
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Shirley Dunlop
A useful link! Thanks!
-
Hi DL! I would wonder if in Porthmouth a street would be named after the battle of Agincourt or rather after HMS Agincourt?
-
Good question! This will be most dependent on the prisoner's status and the captor's (or ransom dealer's to whom the prisoner may be sold after the capture) standing and personality. Charles of Orleans certainly was not kept in irons for 25 years. On the other hand, in some cases, especially among low-level soldiers and captains sometimes starvation and even...
-
That's interesting Barbara. But its memory was used to inspire the British soldiers in the WWI and WWII when they were fighting alongside rather than against the French. Did it become a symbol of English victory over a does-not-matter-which eneny?
-
A nice link! Thanks Judith!
-
Hi Janet! May you be inerested to see this?
http://www.agincourt600.com/was-the-v-sign-invented-at-the-battle-of-agincourt/ -
Surely Wendy! I've seen it there with my own eyes in May 2016 and never heard of any plans to remove it from there!
-
Hi Jennifer! Henry V was not but his son Henry VI was! Though this does not make much difference after all.
-
Hi Hank! Do you think that the characteristic English militarism throughout the was greater than French, German, Russian or other nations'? If so how and how much did Agincourt contribute?
-
That;s interesting Sebastian. How did it affected England as an emerging world power then?
-
All fine Bill! But there was Crecy in 1346 to which all that perfectly fits
-
Hi Susan! What do you mean 'such a popular king'? Among his subjects? Or in the list of the English kings we have today?
-
Well Judith, the English were shipping armies to France times and times again during the Hundred Years war and won several victories-against-all-odds like Crecy and Poitiers. Do you remember them as well?
-
Well said Alan! To be honest prior to the first run of this course I never realised how important part of the national myth Agincourt is in England. I think every nation has such historic episodes and it is always difficult to keep calm discussing them. But worth trying!
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Ian Hines
Hi Ian! You should certainly take a look here:
http://www.agincourt600.com/was-the-v-sign-invented-at-the-battle-of-agincourt/ -
That's interesting Galina! Surely the magnificent procession must have shaped the way in which the battle was reported later. But does it mean that any later reports can be discarded?
-
That's interesting Grace. Would you expect the remnants of a single day involving thousands of men to be as survivable archaeologically as a place where much smaller groups of men lived for years and possibly generations? Don't know the answer so really curious.
-
Good point Edward! Mass graves (and these are mentioned in the narrative sources) if found can be very informative of how the battle was fought.
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to SHAREE BOYD
Glad you enjoyed the course Sharee!
-
You may find interesting this paper on his digs from the Society of Antiquaries event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBJww-70sCU -
Interesting. Thanks, John!
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Leonard Trim
A good point Leonard! People often forget how much the armies we tend to see as 'national' are actually allied. Possibly, not very relevant to Agincourt, but thanks anyway!
-
Good questions Craig! Well at least the Agincourt victory was not completely useless as it did change significantly the very weak political balance between the Armagnacs and the Burgundians, being largely an Armagnac defeat. But you're certainly right the victory certainly did not bring him the French crown. Why then make such a solemn celebration?
-
An interesting note on the importance of the city, thanks Judith!
-
That's interesting, thanks John! And what about Henry V's actual achievments?
-
Hi Barbara! So you think the scale of triumph is not proportional to the achievements? Why so then?
-
Thanks for your suggestion John! That's an interesting idea but I am afraid the information on the origin in the muster rolls is too poor and too random. The situation is better with the letters of protection, but they are more distributed through the period. But may be worth thinking of.
-
Well done! Is this based on the new reconstruction of the battle or on a 'traditional' one?
-
Interesting points Thomas! But as far as I am aware the canonballs and bullets can give much to reconstruct the course of the battle and these founds by Glen Foard has given ground for a reconsideration of the battle of Bosworth. And there still may be some chance of discoving the burial pits (the existence of which is reported in the chronicles) which could...
-
An interesting link and discussion. Thanks Vesna!
-
Good point about not wearing helmets Mark! A well-known problem for the artistes of all kind in need to make the personages recognizable. In fact surely the helmets would be on with visors down. There are so many mentions in the chronicles that someone got killed as he raised his visor or removed chin protection to take a breath and was hit with an arrow! My...
-
Hi Sharee! There were certainly newsletters sent just after the battle. You may find interesting this piece by Dan Spencer:
http://www.agincourt600.com/how-did-news-of-the-battle-of-agincourt-reach-england/ -
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Barry Peay
Good question Barry! Will be interested to hear how it will seem to you after doing this week.
-
Hi Alexander! Not sure that there are enough russian-speakers on the course to appreciate this video but I did! Surely our understanding of Agincourt will increase significantly if the battlefield site comes to be verified by archaeological discoveries.
-
An interesting article! Thanks Frances.
By the way, have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAzI1UvlQqw -
A good question about 'if these were English prisoners' but I do not think I am English enough (actually I am not) to answer that, sorry. I would only note that unlike the 19th and 20th century cases these prisoners were not the prisoners of the state they were the prisoners of their captors and its worth mentioning that the contemporary sources say that it...
-
Hi Paul. The battle site must have been well in the rear of the Allies during the WWI so there is still some chance for findings.
-
Hello Lynda! How would the French know of the massacre if it was expected to instill fear?
-
Hi James! Actually this is what happens in many medieval battles, not only at Agincourt, the side which manages to hold the line suffers much less then the one which breaks and flees. And the French must have taken losses while approaching, the losses which also served to disorganise their formation!
-
Hello Jon! There are some doubts about the actual location of the battlefield site hence it is difficult to say anything for sure, but the general suggestion was that the flanks were protected with wood
-
That's a really interesting point Jitze: to justify a murder one needs to identify himself with a group which benefitted from that death. So one alien death for the common wealth, on any level, from your squad to your country.
Can't help reminding John the Fearless, duke of Burgundy, presenting to the king Charles VI the justification of his ordering a... -
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Irene Purdy
A good point emphasizing the difference between an action being illegal or immoral! Thanks Irene!
-
Good question Robert! Personally, I think at least most nations do.
And thanks for sharing this link! -
Hi Alexander! What do you mean as 'universally accepted' then? And why was not he blaimed for doing this. E.g. Enguerrand de Monstrelet writing in the 1440s (i.e. after the collapse of the Anglo-Burgundian alliance) blamed those who launched an attack on the baggage train. On the other hand Guillebert de Lannoy did serve the English or rather Lancastrian...
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to David G
Hello David! What in the French reaction makes you think so? Just to mention, Ghillebert de Lannoy who happily escaped massacre in 1415 later fought in the army led by Henry V at the siege of Melun (1420) as the duke of Burgundy made alliance with the English. Moreover his brother Hue was one of the most anglophile councillors of duke Philip the Good in the...
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Peter Lees
Hi Peter, thanks for being honest! Any particular things worth improving you can think of?
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to [Learner left FutureLearn]
Hi Michael, think this was also a consideration! There must have been some memories of the former campaigns as Henry hoped to cross the Somme at the ford of Blanchetaque just as Edward III did in 1346, but had to abandon the idea when he was told that the ford was well defended by French forces.
-
Good question Robert! I am not sure however that the massive use of stakes against cavalry was already a well-known stratagem. It was used by the Turks against the crusaders (including some French knights who later fought at Aginocourt like Boucicault) at Nicopolis in 1396 but I am not sure we find the stakes in Western Europe before Agincourt. There pit traps...
-
Hi all! You're right Constance detaining Orleans in England was a matter of political bargaining much more that of collecting his ransom. Ironically when he was eventually set free in 1440 it was very much due to the efforts of the duke of Burgundy rather than the king of France.
Also you may find interesting that Charles's brother Jean, count of Angouleme,... -
Hi all, I would add one more consideration to what Mike had offered. The lands around were controlled by the duke of Burgundy who held the counties of Flanders and Artois. At the same time due to close trading links between England and Flanders Burgundy was always less jnclined to make war against the English. If the English invaded France through Calais he...
-
Hello Vicki! You say that France chose the duke of Orleans. Was it possible to chose anyone else as long as Charles (king's cousin, next in the succession line after the king and his three sons) was with the army?
-
Good point David, thanks a lot!
-
Thanks for the link Carlos! I would strongly recommend the articles and the book by Remy on the treatment of the prisoners.
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Anna Mattaar
Hi Anna! This is a question often asked during the previous runs: why allow the besieged a time to be relieved. I would suggest that this has to be seen in terms of practices of war and feudal obligations rather than tactics.
It was normal that if the place was taken by assault no one's life or property was guaranteed. This normally does not mean that the... -
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to John Cleeve
Thanks John: a truly interesting question: if we take the march to Calais as plan B what was the plan A? Would he seek a battle with the French or try to extend the territory under his control by laying siege to other places?
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to DL Long
Good question DL! There are some cases when the town wished to surrender while the garrison did not. Sometimes this could result in the garrison fortifying themselves in the castle (if there was one) letting the town fall to the enemy or (if the garrison agreed) the citizens would get in contact with the besiegers negotiating the surrender conditions which...
-
Good point Charlie! Harfleur was also an important naval base for the French.
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Vicki Mathew
A good point Vicki! As Henry invaded Normandy again he took Caen, the first major city on his way, by assault so that an example was shown to other places. The treatment of the population of Harfleur was not too merciful but something which a place making a stout defence could expect after surrender.
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Andy Goodyear
Many thanks for sharing Andy!
-
Hello Philip! But there had been a certain experience of the king's absence. Most of the French recovery after the first stage of the Hundred Years War in the 1360s-1370s was achieved without Charles V leading his armies but delegating the military commnd to his brothers and competent commanders such as Bertrand du Guesclin. Could not this save the army from...
-
Hello Peter! Do not think that there was actually a chance of the Duke of Burgundy joining the English. John the Fearless was always keen to show that he is not fighting the king but only his bad (i.e. Armagnac) councillors. And this was exactly the reason why the numerous Anglo-Burgundian negotiations for alliance never succeeded in the 1410s. It was only...
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to DL Long
Hello DL! These were the times of no permanent armies, the one assembled for the campaign against the duke of Burgundy in 1414 were sent home as soon as peace was done. Keeping them under arms in anticipation of the English invasion would completely ruin the royal finances in a few months!
-
Nice point Michael. Agincourt myth produced its own relics. See for example this spur:
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O100801/spur-from-the-field-of-spur-unknown/ -
Hello Tom! That's exactly what we have in Jean de Wavrin's chronicle for the battle of Verneuil (1424). He says he was too busy defending himself to note any details. So possibly even an "embedded reporter" would not be a solution.
-
Good point Heather, everyone will tell his own story! For me a best example is a Burgundian chronicler Jean de Wavrin, who fought in the English army in the battle of Verneuil (1424) writing quite literally that he cannot say much of what was happening on the battlefield as he was too busy defending himself.
-
A good question John! So a campaign proved to be not worth itself?
-
Hello Aviva! An interesting point about ransoming of prisoners being a war crime as well! Would you like to speak more on that?
-
An interesting link Christine, thanks for sharing!
-
Good points Judith! May I suggest that being abandoned by the king is not only a matter of psychological discomfort but also the king's failure to defend his subjects, which in turn could deliver the subjects from their obligations of loyalty to the king.
-
One more point: Henry V was able to send his sick back home from Harfleur. Why could not he ship the army back if he wished to?
-
Hello Christine! Was it possible to come to a diplomatic agreement with the citizens unless there was a clear evidence (e.g. a major breach in the wall) that they have done their duty in defending the city as long as possible and they are beyond any reproach in terms of their obligations before the king of France?
-
Hello Jitze! Well, usually the prisoners were not used for forced labour (though there is a record of a French prisoner sold to the Winchester college to work at the kitchen after Agincourt). However every noble prisoner from a simple ecuyer (squire) or more prominent was worth good ransom to the captor, so there was always an economic consideration behind all...
-
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Leonard Trim
Interesting points Leonard, thanks! I would suggest that heraldry and the quality and richness of armour could be the defining moment at the selection.
If we think of this as a simple attempt to get rid of too many prisoners it may be worth taking into account that every prisoner meant profit to his captor (with only a part going to the king). Would the king... -
Hello Christina! Why do you think this would be considered as a breach?
-
Hello Kim! Thanks for such a detailed and truly interesting introduction in how the matter would be addressed withing the modern legislation.
Could I try to note a few things? The prisoners must have been unarmed but most likely not fully unarmoured (this would probably be a too complicated and time-consuming process) and they were able to take a respite.... -
Hello Cathy. Agincourt roll is only one of the sources. I have addressed it elsewhere
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/agincourt/3/comments/17030973
or you can take a look at a research guide by Anne Curry
http://www.medievalsoldier.org/guidance/agincourt.html -
Hello Barbara! You can always have your search results sorted by clicking at the column header. Hope that helps!
-
Hello Elizabeth! Just be aware, by leaving the Agincourt roll Dataset only you will be missing the sldiers listed in the TNA records for the year 1415. You may find more detail on the datasets under the Datasets Described menu tab:
http://www.medievalsoldier.org/publications/dataset_descriptions.html -
Aleksandr Lobanov replied to Vesna McMaster
An interesting comparison of 1415 and 1599. Thanks Vesna!
-
Hello Vesna! Any ideas what was the reality then?
-
Hello Andrew! Yes there are fascinating things being found and still to be found in the archives. In relation to the second question it is worth noting that the French soldiers also were to be paid wages. Therefore there was some reason for the government in issuing summons at the very last moment when it was already clear where the English had landed and in...
-
Hi Julie! A mixture of archers and crossbowmen. As they were paid the same in the French accounting documents the difference is not always made.
-
Thanks for sharing this Christine!
-
Hello Dawn! Do not think this is due to moral rather then to practical reasons. The smaller guns were used in battles since at least 1420s but for some reasons it seems to be less popular among the English than among the French. Possibly they were quite happy with their archers' missile capabilities.
Do you think killing with a gunstone is more impersonal... -
Hello Christine! Only a little bit early, there were attempts to use them in the field in the war between Poland and the Teutonic Knights in 1410, though not sure that with much effect. Speaking of the Anglo-French war we would find the guns on the battlefield at Cravant (1423), Rouvrai (1429), Montepilloy (1429), Bulgneville (1431), Formigny (1450) more often...
