Georgios Zoumpoulidis
Freelance translator and QA/MT specialist. Core specialisation: localisation, law, business & finance. PhD student (Translation Studies) at Cardiff University, teaching at undergrad level.
Location Cardiff
Activity
-
@JudeDawson As a freelance translator myself, I can attest to the fact that we get paid a lot less than we deserve. Especially for newcomers in the field, fees may actually be very low indeed. Things do get better as you get more experience and credentials, though, so there is always hope, I guess :)
-
If the setting allows, yes, and in fact they should. But there are cases where you simply can not...
-
"How can I help you" is a very colourful example indeed in several languages. It may be the case that the first time it was/is translated (wrongly of course) literally, and then this bit of foreignness gains currency and is incorporated in the target language...
-
Very true. As the saying goes, although all translators/interpreters are (at least) bilingual, the reverse is not necessarily true :)
-
@ElizabethLudwig-Simkin It's a mouthful, isn't it ? :-)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Amy Jordi
@AmyJordi I really liked your comment, so I'll offer one question that will probably make you a bit mad at me: How certain are you that the heart I'm referring to is not the same as the one you talk of? :-)
A cybernetic/AI kind of heart (the heart of a general AI), so to speak, will probably be different than human heart. An AI's despair will be different...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to [Learner left FutureLearn]
@KatalinEgriKu-Mesu In Piller's book, I particularly enjoyed "The Subordination of Linguistic Diversity" (Chapter 3).
-
Thank you very much for your kind words - do keep reading, lots of interesting stuff ahead as well!
-
Business and Finance are 2 distinct specialisms, as Dorota correctly pointed out. For Finance, you'd probably need some financial credentials as well. In your case (USA), you wouldn't necessarily need to pass something like the Series 7 exam, but the closer you get to it the better, obviously :)
Having more languages is always an advantage, but you would...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Jude Dawson
There are some quite funny "horror" stories regarding post-editing (editing of machine translation by human proofreaders) so that it becomes publishable. In some cases, companies basically had to write off MT as unusable and request retranslation by humans, but usually it is a mix of minor and major corrections (by humans). MT systems are still always liable...
-
@HowardHarris Here is the thing though: the more variables you correctly identify, the easier it becomes to actually develop neural systems that replicate them. In fact, if we could only isolate all variables involved, we could just program the relevant systems and problem solved. Said variables may be complex, but if they are identifiable and quantifiable...
-
@ElenaKalinina I am not familiar with the translation in Russian, so I can say that in this case the translation seems to be a certain reading of the source. From a hermeneutical point of view, this can be either questionable or highly commendable. From a normative point of view, it would be norms and conventions of the receiving culture that decide what the...
-
The fact that MT is not ripe enough is due to our own inability to construct algorithms and systems that do so - we are getting better at it, though we are quite there yet. As someone who has worked for Google in the past, I can say that I am almost confident that we will get to the point where you will be able to use MT reliably in many, but probably not all,...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Amy Jordi
Never is such a strong word - better not go there. I think I'd stick with "at this time", "presently", etc. on both fronts. At a certain level of analysis, even "heart" can be reduced to chemicals, engineering, electronics and neurology. You could also add a discursive element as well in the mix, if you want to go for 100% :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Jude Dawson
Do not count out machine translation. It is an essential building block of translation work both now and in the future. It still is a relatively new tool, and wrinkles are still being ironed out. Using it can be funny at times though, as you correctly point out :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to [Learner left FutureLearn]
@KatalinEgriKu-Mesu I would agree in principle, although in the case in question things are quite complicated, and I think there are many forces at play...
-
That might also account for the fact that many of us feel at home when watching Star Trek and maybe speaking Klingon as well :)
-
@VeraVinokurova If you happen to have some time to kill ;) then you might want to check out Chapter 4, Politeness and Translation, by Juliane House, in The Pragmatics of Translation (ed. Leo Hickey).
-
@AmberEdwards Same experience for me regarding Greece - using *please* and especially *sorry* the British way in most of Club Med(iterranean) countries is always very interesting :)
-
@EduardoMórlan Great stuff, wish I could 3D print it right now :)
Or, alternatively, Star Trek transporter option also accepted :) -
@EduardoMórlan Thank you very much - could you sent over some Annona, please? :)
-
If I may offer some advice, get back to reading Kipling - there are no elves there, if memory serves, but his text is at times magical as well...
-
The answer lies in your third sentence, I think ("It is difficult for me to imagine a world in which people don't know what ricotta is"). One's paradise is another's hell - speakers of a language are divided in many ways, and what Group A takes for granted, Group B might have never heard of. From a practical point of view, it is a numbers game, after a fashion...
-
"Schadenfreude", deriving pleasure from the suffering of others, is often quoted as a word with no equivalent in English, but this is where knowing a bit of Ancient Greek helps - the rarely used word "epicaricacy", derived from the Ancient Greek ἐπιχαιρεκακία (same meaning as Schadenfreude), is the translation you are looking for :)
Having said that,...
-
In Junker's defence (though I'm not really familiar with the incident), might I add that in central European "speak" *nebulous* usually does not necessarily mean anything inherently "bad", it basically means not clear-cut, but in a more abstract/political way. You need other words nearby/other context for it to have a negative meaning. It was probably his...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Ekram Abdelgawad
Thank you very much for this - your description brings back fond memories! One quick question - by "persuasion skills" do you mean that they persuade the tourists that they can understand the language(s) involved, or something entirely different ;)
-
@StépiphanieReikcnor This represents a valiant prescriptive definition attempt - although I'm quite certain that within some other framework it would be considered descriptive instead :)
The issue is extremely wide-ranging and fascinating, both historically and from a philosophical point of view. Theory of meaning (within translation studies), philosophy...
-
Could I ask what your language is? "Transferring liquid from one container to another" sounds quite intriguing! Does "interpreting" mean something equally exotic in your language as well?
-
Well done - always ask if not sure :)
The example I gave is a valid starting point, but if interested in more recent cases like this one, try the debate around recently naming a very distant binary object "Ultima Thule", an ancient legend/name that was appropriated by a certain much more recent infamous party. What the idea of "Ultima Thule" means for each... -
@LyesAllalou Your definition of a monster is quite enjoyable. Also, translation may indeed be much more than delivering a message. We'll talk about what that may be in the next weeks, stay tuned :)
-
If you define them as synonyms for the purposes of this discussion, I'll happily go along with it (I believe that's the case). If you mean that they are equivalent, then I would just make a very cheap point (instead of a long and probably quite boring philosophical argument): ideas can have meaning that is totally disassociated to them. For instance, a red...
-
Wish I could give you a few million likes for "becoming language", but the system only allows one :)
I think this idea is connected to Walter Benjamin's "pure language". You may want to check out "The Task of the Translator" and "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction", if you are interested in some "light" reading :)
-
I think that at times translation can be about all the things you both correctly mention: sometimes register may be critical, sometimes meaning, sometimes ideas, sometimes several other things as well. Sometimes you are led by the text to certain conclusion, for example, but sometimes it might be the other way round. You as a translator may decide to go...
-
Google translate and other machine translation software/sites/etc should be used, I think, as they are probably your only tool into a language you don't know, for instance, or for churning out translations on demand rapidly. Using them, however, should come with an understanding of the inherent limitations (some of which you correctly mention!)
-
Fully agree!
Re your last sentence, I would even go as far as to say that that the reverse also holds true; at times it's so easy for translation to get lost in ideas :) -
I quite agree - although, does it really have to be monster? :)
-
A similar example can be found in Missandei's interpretation efforts in Game of Thrones, S3E3, where Daenerys negotiates to swap a dragon for the Unsullied: https://youtu.be/rvBXx2MZA5Q
-
From a psychoanalytical point of view, at times you may even have trouble translating what "you" want to say in "your" language.
-
Well, Google translate (as well as other machine translation software) is a good place to start. On a corporate level, when MT is used, post-editing by humans is usually the next logical step, though.
Also, there is something positively seductive and quite addictive about entering text, pressing a "Translate now" button and having a translation of sorts :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to george B.
We'd need a bit of context - are you referring to this?
https://youtu.be/6oKUTOLSeMM -
After you've "found your voice in English" (or any language), so to speak, I think the question then becomes - is it the same language that you started out with, or have you become someone else in the meantime, catering to the needs of the Other? :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to René Adika
Terribly sorry - hope all is well now :)
-
I can't really say I know very much about what has been happening in Syria the last few years, but I'm pretty sure yours is one of the most important professions, given the circumstances... Hang in there!
-
"Mundane, repetitive tasks will be done by machines, but the capability to think not."
It's all about understanding any task well enough. After that, I can always break it down to smaller chunks (steps), produce an algorithm that describes the process(es) and, as they say, game over :)And that's AI 1.0 (or even beta) really. We are now starting to move...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Daria R
Thank you very much for your kind words, Daria! I am pretty certain we will run the course again in the future, so you will be able, I think, to revisit all issues armed with knowledge and experience gained in the meantime :)
-
Gatsos is a very interesting figure in so many ways indeed. To listen to something of his (a part of "Amorgos"): https://youtu.be/ltRrVml87wU - Brilliant stuff!
-
Totally agree as a reader, terms in the source language with explanatory notes sounds great, assuming one is not just listening to an audiobook instead - things can get complicated ;)
-
1) "where you would not know it is a translation" = fluency (>>> domestication)
2) "captivate the reader in the same way the original may have done" >>> not always possible from a psychoanalytical point of view
3) "A translation has to reflect the writer's style too" >>> deformation issues (see Berman, The Trial of the Foreign)... and these are just some...
-
There is not much difference between the two really - Venuti's ideas are more or less based on Berman's, although he did place much more emphasis on certain aspects of the Foreign. But Berman's main contribution could probably be summarised as the idea of translation being a "trial of the Foreign", and of a "negative analytic" (textual deformation, etc.). The...
-
@ÉrikaBatista There are, generally speaking two ways of "translating": one is by trying to "understand" and the other by dealing with text "without trying to really understand it", using decoders and other algorithms to break it down to translatable bits/parts. The third MT approach is a combination of the two above.
We are getting better at all three by...
-
It has to do with how much "training" the Google MT software has gone through - maybe Turkish is still lagging behind for some reason...
-
Yep - from a financial point of view, as they say, bad money always drives good money out of the market. And that is exactly what is happening the last few years to a large extent. However, there is always a bit of goodness left at the end of the day ;)
Although not very often, I have seen non-pros translating well, and also pros doing a poor job. For...
-
You are quite right, and the distinction is being made throughout the course.
Although, truth to be told, there is more common ground than differences between the two. After all, even us professionals do not get paid all the time, and even when we do, we certainly are not paid enough, most of the time anyway :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Patricia Dickenson
Confirming your understanding of Spirit :)
But I think what might also be interesting is how things got this way. Pneuma (spirit) used to mean all these things, but then Agio Pneuma (Holy Spirit) gained currency and from then on it became the main (though not only) meaning... So what spirit means in each case, is also time-sensitive... -
It has a lot to do with translation, Carlos :)
Cf. Steiner's always topical After Babel or, for even more drama, so to speak, his Grammars of Creation... -
Good metaphor, got me thinking...
Strictly in printmaking terms then, since a "copy" is never really a carbon copy (as you correctly pointed out) is it still a copy? How much can you leave out before it's not a copy anymore? And how much of the original must absolutely be preserved?
"The viewer understands that both the plate and the print are different...
-
Ah - the eternal debate of "subs vs dubs" :) Probably needs an entire module/course of its own...
What is also quite interesting, is that there are sometimes differences between subs and dubs even when they are *both* provided. Other forces at play, maybe? (hint hint!) -
In one of my favourite economics books, The Theory of Money And Credit by Ludwig von Mises, the translator includes a very detailed note of how he went about translating certain complicated financial terms from German into English, using a very lengthy Translator's Note contained in an Appendix. Same idea :)
-
"The length of the sentence" - is it not part of the complexity that needs to be preserved as well? Food for thought :)
-
In this context, it would seem it is all about choosing who to leave at peace then, as Schleiermacher suggests: should you leave the author (source text) or the reader (target text) at peace, and pay attention to the other ;)
At the same time, you have already become a functionalist by accepting this, as you base your translation strategies to requirements...
-
All's well that ends well, then, maybe? The books did sell at the end of the day :)
-
It always takes time for society to come to terms with the Foreign or the Other, well pointed out!
-
You are trying to specify a certain space within the foreignization/domestication spectrum (Venuti). In theoretical terms, you are saying that you prefer domestication (fluency, naturalness, etc) but still need to preserve "something" of the original ("do not erase all the different expressions.."). At the end, you try to define a quality marker/index ("no...
-
As is usually the case in most things European, I think there are two ways of thinking at play. One is, so to speak, "nationalistic" thinking: I'll speak my language, and you need to know how to speak it, if you want to talk to me. The other is another ancient European tradition, that of wanting to make your guest feel welcome: I'll talk in your language, to...
-
Very interesting, you touch on many aspects. I'll add a neuroscience-oriented dimension: neuroplasticity (http://medind.nic.in/icb/t05/i10/icbt05i10p855.pdf) is at its highest at the age of learning your L1 and significantly deteriorates thereafter. Broadly speaking, babies and toddlers pick up almost everything being said around them, and become native...
-
Well pointed out - "paddle your own canoe" just does not make justice to the French, does it? There is a symptom involved in the original text, and it needs to be conveyed in English, I think. How one goes about the task, how others decide to hide behind the words or omit them altogether, that is another symptom that frequently (and quite inconveniently) pops...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Karen Saxl
Although I'd formally call it intralingual translation, from a certain point of view, technical to non-technical is actually translating between two different languages, especially nowadays and increasingly so, I believe, in the future...
-
Venuti sometimes goes out of his way in his translations and quite provokingly breaks the invisibility rule and very consciously so. Whether he is always "successful" or no belongs to another discussion, but it is, I think, true that he usually unearths interesting things by doing so. Creating "foreign-oriented" translations is one of the intended outcomes,...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Leslie Belt
Especially in interpreting, the (internal and/or external) conflict between advocacy and neutrality is quite relevant (often enshrined in codes of interpreting practices) - and always hotly debated :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Stagi Stagi
Very good point ("never take a word out of context"), but keep in mind that the reverse may also true: what if, so to speak, by taking context out of its (original) words, you end up losing both? Food for thought maybe ;)
-
Please do bear with us - lots of cool stuff ahead, I promise :)
-
Well, as someone who is into legal translation, I see your point, but would also argue that at times "the strict meaning of the document" really needs to be quite loose, while at other times the loose meaning of a legal text needs to be very strict indeed :))
If I wanted to be a bit cryptic (or cheeky for that matter!) I'd say that the language of law is at...
-
I really like the "the words can modify the translator" part - if you are in a discourse of sorts, then significance exists not only in what is being said, but also in what it transforms the speaking agent into, I think!
-
Code switching at its best :)
-
@LoredanaPolezzi Totally agree. However messing with timelines is inherently dangerous in and of itself...
If I go back in time and, say, kill or otherwise prevent Temüjin from becoming the infamous Genghis Khan, to prevent the ensuing massacres, I have just killed 1 out 200 males in existence today (Source:...
-
@SantiagoGonzalez translation is not equivalent to explanation (and vice versa), obviously - well pointed out! But any explanation by default contains translation, and vice versa - any translation contains explanation. Hope this makes sense? :)
I can see why at first glance it would seem that "intralingual translation only works diachronically", but I'd...
-
I think that the struggle between the notions of "neutrality" ("imitativeness") and "advocacy" may ultimately be the clash that unleashes the hidden meaning of legal texts from a psychoanalytic point of view, but that probably belongs to a another discussion :)
-
@KarenSaxl but with danger comes opportunity: I would agree that it is quite inappropriate for children to get involved with certain things, including tax forms. Tax forms, however, are actually not less inappropriate for grownups as well, I think :)
But the opportunity lies in the sheer fact that the child picks up valuable skills without even having the... -
I'll give you a somewhat cryptic response and then a hopefully helpful example ;)
You need to know (or have access to) not only the language of the text but also the language of the subject. For example, not only, say, English and German, but also the language of medicine, if we are talking about a medical text. And then, you also need translation knowledge,... -
Translation seems indeed to be pervasive. From a certain point of view, even monolinguals translate at times. Whenever one talks to a less informed party, is the speaker not involved in a translation of sorts? For example, if I know nothing about gravitational lensing and I am then given a "layperson account" of the concept, is that account not an intralingual...
-
Same idea in a different setting: Year 2/3 kids interpreting for their non-English speaking grandparents here in the UK. It sort of reverses the established idea (or power structure) that it is the "elders" that guide you into navigating in the world. At the same time, it reinforces the idea that knowledge, and not necessarily age, is what one should look up...
-
The skull, as has already been mentioned by Loredana, is usually understood as a memento mori ("you've lived a great life, full of achievement, but remember that you are mortal, lest you commit the sin of hybris").
On a probably more creepy note, being a full time translator myself, I can not shake the feeling that the skull represents what we translators...
-
To answer a question like this, one would need to take into consideration many aspects of "neutrality". If neutrality is an ethical stance, where (and why) would the translator fall within this spectrum/context? If neutrality is a way of engaging with translation (or a "code" of practice) then what does that imply for the space of the translator within this...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Jose Delgado
I'd say you need several things to fall into place for MT to become really competitive at all levels. As tech solves software/hardware issues (not there yet!) "raw power" (i.e. corpus/database driven solutions) will start competing (already has to a certain degree) with human translators, firstly in cognate languages, then all over, for some subject areas,...
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Jennifer Harkness
Also, a quick remark on Jennifer's comment ("Either we conclude that the massacre is mutual, or we try to learn from each other"): I would argue that in the course of human history, both have already happened and will likely happen again and again :)
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to Jennifer Harkness
Nominalisation issues are very common in translation - well pointed out! In fact, they play a very important role in creating in- and out-groups within language. Advanced/distinguished/"posh" speakers usually use a lot more nouns than those that are not, esp. in continental Europe languages; and they usually (including me!) take great pride in being more...
-
"I think I can understand it better that way, even if I don't know the language" is, I think, an excellent point! I would even argue that at times, to understand is to disregard language, or in Star Trek terms, to boldly go beyond it.
On the other hand, striving to find "an original" of sorts may prove challenging, even when you do (or believe you do!)... -
Great choice of translator - to be the inspiration to "The Journey to The West" is quite amazing!
-
Very interesting choice - just adding a bit of background info: katharevousa was not just "conceived" and was a real, live language (in fact, it sort of still is, although, obviously, spoken by very few). It was sort of a bridge between "demotic" (and there were and still are, many flavours of demotic) and Ancient Greek, or a simplified version thereof (quite...
-
A very interesting perspective on Shakespeare, and one that is often overlooked. I would certainly agree with such a reading to a certain extent...
On a more "conspiracy theory" sort of thing, you might want to have a look at this: http://www1.cbn.com/spiritual-life/was-shakespeare-one-translators-king-james-bible
-
A fascinating historical figure! As he himself said, "non dolet ipse Dolet, sed pia turba dolet" before heading to his death (burned as a "relapsed atheist").
-
A few decades ago, there was a very vivid discussion in matters like this, in the context of the so-called "Soviet realism" vs. formalism, I think - so maybe things are cooling down now :)
-
Very interesting - which 3 languages?
-
Georgios Zoumpoulidis replied to [Learner left FutureLearn]
I have a dream... translated in the narrative of a dream or a dream of a narrative? :)
-
Exact equivalents are great - when they are there to be found. Nida even talked of identical equivalents, but would ultimately settle for some sort of dynamic equivalence. The reason that you can find such equivalents in technical texts, is that the underlying systems in question sort of co-evolve: engineering, for examples, co-evolves in many countries. But...
-
In most "Western" legal systems, the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty. The only way to ensure that this is not just empty words, is to have a legal professional by and on your side in court, no matter if she already knows (or not) whether you are innocent or not. And from this point on intricate legal dramas start to unravel, ever since the...
-
Greek/German/English:
διερμηνέας = Dolmetscher = interpreter, and
μεταφραστής = Übersetzer = translatorIt would be interesting to know about other languages as well...
-
An excellent point, Jane! It is translating indeed: you translate a meeting into something else. Translation is not only interlingual, it can also be intralingual, as in this case, or when creating abstracts, summaries, etc.
-
There is a great deal of research on Thérèse's question. As a starting point, you could consider that this "help" is analogous to a translator's note, after a fashion (but also quite different as well in some ways)...
-
Good example, Thérèse! Not only not "neutral"; the defence attorney is actually sort of an advocate, although how much of an advocate is open to debate...
