Joel Foreman (#UoSFLWellington Facilitator)
History undergraduate at the University of Southampton. Facilitator on the Wellington and the Battle of Waterloo MOOC.
Location Southampton, UK
Activity
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Thanks for contributing to the comments section so much over the past weeks, Gillian. Have noticed how involved you've gotten, glad you enjoyed the course
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Thanks for your comment Aileen, glad you enjoyed the course
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True, but same could be said of the Russians before Borodino in 1812 and Wellington himself during the Peninsular War because of their Scorched Earth policy
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Hi Aileen. I think the "what if's" of Waterloo are so vast, so numerous (you can really track its effects all the way to World War One, and even beyond) that it becomes more acceptable to some, myself included. I think it's also important to consider that this was the only really big military victory in about a 150 year period for Britain and involved three of...
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Hi Vic, good point. They must have been almost super-human, not only did they have to have astute military leadership but also political savvy too! You really did have to have it all to succeed.
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The officers certainly were right up there- part of the reason for the sheer discipline of the troops was that their officers were right next to them, setting the example. When I was younger I was always so surprised by the number of junior officer deaths in military battles until you see that they were probably the people in the most danger. Crazy, heroic stuff
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David, it is interesting you mention Marlborough, Nelson and Wellington and yet two of the historians plumped for Slim, whom many would never have even heard of. Makes us realise that really, ones legacy is based almost entirely on time and place and little else.
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Hi George, the battlefield really is quite something to take in isn't it? On your last point there, you could say it was better in that it was just ONE bloodbath- although for many of the British soldiers at Waterloo they'd also gone through six or seven years in the Peninsular War too.
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Yes he was onboard the HMS Bellerophon and created quite the stir once word got out that he was on the ship
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The course has been built on the Wellington archives here at Southampton which explains the Wellington centrism. I will pass your comments on to those who built the course up, however.
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The French had no supply lines, they lived off the land. As such, it was just the men and their kit which means that they weren't held up by having to wait for supply trains- unlike the German Army when it was executing the Schlieffen Plan at the beginning of World War One, for example. They also didn't move as one massive blob but in separate corps, all...
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It is often left out of historical discussion that Wellington was involved in politics from the same time as he was involved in the army
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Britain was moving in the right direction but Russia and Austria especially would not see much reform at all for another hundred years, and neither monarchy survived World War One.
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https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/wellington-and-waterloo/comments/6001444 a little interesting snippet on the area in the comment above
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I think that one clearly goes without saying as the best tribute offered so far
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Very true- both the campaigns were hindered massively by the enforcement of a Scorched Earth policy by Russia.
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Hi Anne- good point about the memorials being larger than life and I think a key reason for this is space! There would have been a lot more room I imagine than there would be 100 years later in the big cities. And less red-tape per se to get through compared to today, especially for a war memorial and the like. Nonetheless, I come from a place that sounds...
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Yep - such was the reasoning for why more than half of the 'British' army at Waterloo were not from Britain!
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Hi Peter, unfortunately I can't answer your question but I can assure you that Wellington would have been able to adjust to politics rather easily- he was involved in politics maybe before he was involved in the army! They tended to start younger in those days!
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It's an interesting idea indeed, Neil. I would suggest however that bearing in mind that a major part of the Allies reasoning for going to war with Revolutionary France from the start was to put a King back on the French throne and not allow a regime to survive that was led by the masses- the monarchies of Europe were fearful of their own people more than any...
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Hi Gillian, I completely agree that it is an amazing story if true. As you say, we can never know, but there are sources that say that Wellington would sometimes place himself when some regiments formed into square. Again, we can't ever say if these sources are correct but fascinating if true
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Hi Martin, good question. Wellington had identified Spain as a problem for France after the Dos de Mayo Uprising in 1808 when it became clear that France would not be able to hold Spain peacefully. He persuaded the government to send their army to Portugal (with him in charge) in order to capitalise on the unrest and basically become a thorn in the side of...
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It's true that the restoration of the French Monarchy was a failure of the Congress but what else could they do? Once you get rid of Napoleon there is little choice but to restore the King back to the throne. It is very well worth thinking about why many of these powers were fighting in the first place: to reassert the system of monarchies in Europe-...
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Let us not even begin to talk about whether William the Conqueror was even French at all!
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Hi Stuart, I think you're right that he would have had to capture, maybe even kill Blucher and Wellington. Both could have been too as they were frontline generals. And Napoleon had destroyed an Austrian-Russian coalition once before at Austerlitz. There are so many what-ifs with this battle and that, for me, is really part of the intrigue of it as it was just...
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Hi David, I think you're right and the Prussians deserve a lot of credit for keeping in touch with the British and not being outmanoeuvred by the French- who were the masters of outmanoeuvring! And the same has to be said for the Allied troops at Waterloo who didn't break. I believe that both should take equal credit but in Britain at least we do tend to have...
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It's amazing how tobacco was so readily available compared to food, probably a situation that is still true today in many parts of the world.
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Hi Margaret, good question. I think it's a bit of both. To be stationed on the Island for too long may have been seen as a punishment by the troops and would naturally lead to discontent. My own opinion is that it's more to do with that than troops being turned by Napoleon as the island was so remote I struggle to see how Napoleon could have done something...
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Great point Elizabeth. What makes it even harder to envisage is that many of his own friends amongst the upper ranks had been killed or wounded too.
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Very true Humberto, there is no better way to know about an event than by reading the memoirs of those who were there. However, it is crucial to keep a sharp eye when reading these sources, as many may have exaggerated or outright lied in order to gain favour/controversy. Not all of them did this of course, but it is worth keeping an eye out for
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Good point Pauline. The Waterloo Campaign was short and that can only be a good thing. However, it is worth remembering that Wellington's army had been in Spain for seven years fighting the Peninsular War, which had also led to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. The Napoleonic Wars are a massive turning point in the history of warfare as it started the...
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Hi Elva, I don't think Florida was in the discussion at the Congress as it wasn't of massive importance to countries like Austria and Russia. Sorting out Europe was enough of a struggle, I think that they would have left discussions of European-held territory outside of Europe for another day. It would not really have been Russia's place to sign a document on...
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Part of it as well is providing the utmost amount of legitimacy for the incoming Bourbon King. Louis XVIII hadn't done a great job in Napoleon's absence and most of his troops defected back to Bonaparte on his arrival on the continent. So any way that they could make the return of France to a monarchy more legitimate and stable, the better.
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I think when the order to charge eventually came, shouting was to be expected. However, keeping men silent before the charge helped to keep them focused. Part of the reason they held on till so late to charge was to ensure that the men were almost in a frenzy, and the silence helps to build toward that. Also, with Napoleon's men sometimes coming up over a...
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For me the most interesting idea is what would have happened had Napoleon been able to fight a defensive war? Political prestige meant he could not do this but walking into the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that the Allies had in Belgium would never work out for him. The point about the alliances untangling is plausible, but many of the armies were almost...
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I believe Howell was actually an educated man who just joined the normal ranks, which wasn't a common occurrence but wasn't unheard of either. I would also say that on being less personal, there are still moments, such as the story of the soldier and his rucksack or the killing of retreating French soldiers.
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There are many reasons one can think of as to why the victory was so celebrated. Perhaps a lot of it is to do with just the sheer scale of British loss equating to heroism. On top of that, Britain had not exactly succeeded in America in the War of 1812 and, like you say, it was a Brit who was in control of holding Napoleon. One more reason I can think of is...
