Kayleigh Scotcher
BSc (Hons) Forensic Science graduate from Sheffield Hallam University. Now currently studying MSc Human Anatomy with Education at the University of Sheffield
Location University of Sheffield
Activity
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@SeyiPearce Exactly - there may be damage to the soft tissue but if only skeletal remains are present then this would not be evident through osteological examination!
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@KatherineYates Yes, exactly - DNA testing would definitely be used! However, if the DNA is degraded or the person's DNA isn't on the DNA database then identification would not be possible. Soft tissue would have to be removed so a cast of the skeleton can be made in order for forensic examination of the bones. I hope this helps :)
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@SabineK Not a silly question at all - the term Asian is quite broad and experts in this field would be able to determine more specific details (such a region) using precise and detailed measurements of the varying features. For example, certain features may be a particular size in one region and can be used to narrow down the origin of the skull. This course...
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@SusanCole Prognathism is when the jaw protrudes from the face and can be seen clearly in this diagram: https://bit.ly/2S61Tdu - I hope that's useful :)
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Thank you for taking part in the course - it has been great to read your comments! Glad you enjoyed it :)
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@LisaMcCarthy - these are great suggestions! I think you are right that these features could change whether someone would be identified and if there was evidence of piercings or makeup use they could take this into account when undergoing the reconstruction process! Thanks for sharing :)
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Thanks for your comment @KatherineYates - forensic techniques can also be used in cases as you have mentioned (for example: checking for counterfeits)!
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@KatherineYates Great to see you using your investigative mind to try to figure out what may have happened! These are all a possibility and would be followed up in an investigation!
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@LornaMcCluskey Thanks for your comment! You are right that this would definitely complicate identification and reconstruction process!
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@SusanCole You are right - thanks for pointing this out! A bog is acidic and therefore the body found in one would usually undergo a different type of decomposition process. The article briefly talks about 'bog bodies' in the mummified section. In the case of adipocere formation, the body would more like be found in a marsh rather than a bog.
Exactly -...
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@BeeC Both good examples! These would be cool, moist and anaerobic conditions! A marsh would also be an alkaline environment which would contribute to the process. Thanks for sharing :)
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@CatherineMarshall-East - Glad you've learnt more about this side to forensics! Let us know if you have any questions about it :)
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This all sounds great @DebbieDaley - looks like you will have a lot of background knowledge on this area and I look forward to reading your comments! :)
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Kayleigh Scotcher replied to Lisa M
Hi Lisa, welcome to course! It will be great to see your comments on the forensic aspects of this course! I hope you enjoy it :)
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Hi Jodie! Welcome to the course - I hope you enjoy it! Let us know if you have any questions :)
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Thanks for sharing! This definitely helps us all understand what other features may have been present to indicate khat use!
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@AnnieK It definitely can be challenging not being able to handle the skull! Did you find identifying the ethnicity easier or harder than identifying the sex of a skull?
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@MarkDeGiovanni That sounds interesting! This would be an example of trace evidence. A fundamental in forensic science is the Locard's exchange principle - 'Every contact leaves a trace.'
Paul L. Kirk explained the principle like this:
"Wherever he steps, whatever he touches, whatever he leaves, even unconsciously, will serve as a silent witness against... -
What a great way to put it @PauletteTaba :)
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@Clare-AnneReeves Forensic hair analysis is very interesting - you can use it to determine all sorts of things such as drug use and location! Thanks for sharing! :)
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@MyriamMunoz That will be fantastic if you do! Thank you for taking part in the course - I hope you enjoyed it! :)
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@ClaudiaSaucedo If a person performs physical activities this can have an effect on the skeleton. It may cause tendons of muscles to calcify and turn to bone if they are overused. Also, fractures may occur due to injury!
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Hi @StevenStone - this method is definitely not as strong as DNA evidence. As DNA is unique to individuals, it can be very specific. However, skeletal features can vary and may not be as prominent/obvious. Therefore, it poses some limitations! The forensic specialist in this field can only share their expert opinion on their findings and, along with other...
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You are absolutely right - all bones within the skeleton (if available) would be examined to determine sex and ethnicity. Thanks for your contribution :)
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You raise a very interesting point about your portraits, @AnnieK - it just goes to show that very small changes to a person's appearance can affect identification! Therefore, all of the features you have listed may affect facial reconstruction and identification. Thanks for sharing :)
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Thanks for sharing @KatarinaLiscakova - you are absolutely right, the mastoid process can be used in sexing of the skull. For people who are interested in reading more about this feature, here is a short summary of a research paper on the topic: https://bit.ly/2BB6JKw
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@vickyroper Exactly - the smell simply could be from the body and it may be strange due to the decomposition process and the locations it could have been stored in! The plastic definitely would have had an effect on the body - it may have assisted in the adipocere formation or delayed the decomposition process but more examination would be required to...
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@BethanBarnard You are absolutely right - bite mark evidence has been shown to have limitations and has not been established as a strong forensic tool. That being said, it could still be used in corroboration to strengthen a case!
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@Brenda-JeanRice Unfortunately, I'm not sure about career opportunities in this area outside of the UK. It might be worth talking to a local careers advisor to see if they can help you with any enquiries! :)
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@CaitlinBarrow - thank you for the comment! You are right, a lot of sources will show a fourth shaped skull. This can be seen in this image: https://bit.ly/2tl5CtO
Your description seems to match that pretty closely! :) -
@BarbaraK-S This can be done in numerous ways and it will depend on what forensic lab is undergoing the procedure, what the remains will be used for and the availability of materials and equipment. Common methods include soft tissue maceration, different types of boiling and the use of insects (like you have mentioned). This paper (PDF download) goes into more...
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Hi @PauletteTaba - glad you enjoyed the course! The printed certificate should get mailed to you within two to five weeks after you qualify for it. The FAQs on certifications can be found here: https://about.futurelearn.com/about/faq?category=certificates-and-statements but let us know if you have any other questions :)
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Welcome @CatherineMarshall-East - sounds like you have a strong interest in the subject! Looking forward to reading your comments :)
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Welcome to the course @CherylHackett - hopefully you will learn a lot about forensics and facial reconstruction throughout the course! Please feel free to ask any questions you may have :)
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Don't worry about starting late @JeanCrapper - welcome to the course! Let us know if you have any questions :)
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I'm glad you enjoyed it @MaureenHuggins - thank you for all of your comments and taking part! :)
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@LisaMcCarthy Absolutely - using this muscle every day would contribute to its strength! It is, however, naturally the strongest because its function is to help us chew food and, therefore, needs to exert large amounts of force to do this! It definitely can weaken if not used or if the nerves supplying the muscle are damaged! Thanks for bringing this point up! :)
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Glad you've enjoyed the course @KerinFreeman - thank you for taking part! :)
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These are all great suggestions @KerinFreeman - these are all factors which may not be determined from forensic examination and therefore can be a limitation! Thanks for sharing :)
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I think you're right @KerinFreeman - having the basic anatomical knowledge could help budding artists understand the different proportions of a face!
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@DonnaHuntriss The cold environment of Yorkshire could contribute to the decomposition process! However, one of the main conditions which contributes to adipocere formation is the lack of oxygen (an anaerobic environment). Can you think of any examples of places which would fit this description?
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The sizes and shapes are fairly consistent due to the general anatomy (they will originate from a particular area on a bone and attach to another specific structure). However, variation does occur and this can be difficult to account for. The depth of the muscles will vary depending on sex and ethnicity and experts can use tables created from anatomical...
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Are there any forensic/crime related documentaries you recommend for other learners? :)
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This is all very interesting @CaitlinBarrow - thank you for sharing! I agree - I love reading about the origins of forensic techniques and when they were first used. It is fascinating how far forensic science has come in the last 100 years!
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This is fascinating! Thanks for sharing @BeeC - I will look more into the case! Here's a news article about it for people who are interested: https://bbc.in/2Qqq8r3
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@GiovannaMontalbetti A great example of where a specific area of forensics was vital! Thanks for sharing!
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I completely agree, @HelenDawson - it definitely would be harder without the ability to compare to each other!
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Great suggestions @ColleenO'Brien - you are right that some of these could be looked into and may help the facial reconstruction process!
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Hi @EmmanuelAlejandroGutiérrez - Welcome to the course! I hope you find it interesting! Let us know if you have any specific questions :)
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@GiovannaMontalbetti - your career sounds fascinating! I'm excited to hear your perspective of this course and case! :)
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@AngieB. Unfortunately, decomposition of human remains (including adipocere formation) is very dependant on various factors! If a body is found in plastic or storage etc... the decomposition process may take longer. If a body is outside and in hot temperatures then the decomposition process may be quicker. These variables make it extremely hard to give a...
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All great research @PauletteTaba - I see you really are using your investigative skills so keep the comments coming!
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@PauletteTaba I'm currently studying Human Anatomy and I'm not an artistic person! If you were interested in forensic reconstruction then artistic skills would definitely be an advantage but having anatomical knowledge is equally as important and skills can always be developed!
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Hi Angie, as this course focusses on facial reconstruction, not all of the forensic evidence is explored in depth. In this case, there was other evidence that pointed towards khat use. This could have been done through dental examination (looking at staining and other features of drug use) and also analysis of any substances or traces on the teeth or near the...
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Interesting point @JayH - glasses definitely could impact on whether someone can be identified! For example, my mum looks like a completely different person to me when she takes her glasses off! Hair is a good example too - especially if it has been dyed or, as you said, radically changed.
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Great suggestions @DorothyKing - these are all features we can't determine from skeletons and therefore can affect facial reconstruction!
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These are all great suggestions @MelodyMcMath
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Hi @KathrynWalton - this sounds great! I hope the course helps you in your writing and let us know if you have any specific questions! :)
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Hi @CaitlinBarrow - welcome to the course :) Let us know if you have any questions!
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Thanks for your research and sharing! This could be the case but there may have more evidence of the disease from the skeleton and human remains - can you think of what these could be?
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You're never too old, Ellie! If you're interested in apprenticeships/trainee positions in this area, you may want to look into trainee anatomical pathology technician positions. Here's some more information on it: https://bit.ly/2BsqweY
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@AlysonKelman Hopefully this course gave you a bit more information to share with your grandchildren! :)
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@JaniceMitchell - this is a very interesting point and something I have never thought of before! I think you are absolutely right that this could play a factor in facial reconstruction and identification!
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@TatjanaM. both are great examples of potential factors affecting forensic reconstruction! Thanks for sharing!
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@MillicentPawley - A great example of when advancements in forensic science have solved previous wrongful convictions!
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@EleanorPepper I love it!
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@JaniceMitchell That's not a silly question at all! The depth markers are for the facial muscles - they would have been based on an average found from a large number of human specimens. The fat layer will be less accurate and can be a limitation to facial reconstruction!
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Kayleigh Scotcher replied to Susan Cole
@SusanCole Brilliant tip - practicing the expressions and saying the muscles used is a great way to learn the facial muscles!
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Hi @AdeleAlao - has this been sorted now? :)
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@GodfreyWilliamBrock-Gadd This sounds incredibly interesting - I will have to look into the case! Thanks for sharing :)
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@AyaYOUSEF - Sorry for the confusion - this page is focussing on what could be found from a skeleton and, in cases where the victim is known, dental records would be used! You are right that this wouldn't be possible in this case as the victim is not known! I hope this helps :)
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@CaitlinBarrow Great answer - this could definitely indicator!
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@KimO I definitely agree and you've made a great point! Having that practical element helps solidify our learning! I'm glad the video helped :)
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Kayleigh Scotcher replied to Ruth Byrd
Thank you for the suggestion @RuthByrd - let me know if you have questions about any particular terms in the meantime! :)
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Sorry about that @MaureenHuggins - that picture was a diagram just to show the differences in eye sockets and not the nasal cavity (they do look the same - so don't worry about that!) This might be a clearer image: https://bit.ly/2Sm1GrL - one thing to remember is not every skull will be 'textbook' and there will be some variation of features!
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@ŞHahedSHarmn thanks for sharing! Forensic entomology is fascinating and for anyone who is interested in reading more about how insects are used in forensic cases, here's some more information on the topic: https://bit.ly/1T6nyOy
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@DorothyKing this is a possibility and it's great to see you get into the mindset of an investigator! After the length of time that has passed it might be unlikely that a pungent smell from khat is still present so can you think of anything else it may have been?
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Great insight @JollyRoger - through methods such as facial reconstruction we can gain a better understanding of the past and, like you said, the reality of that time!
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Thank you for taking part and all of your comments @BarbaraK-S - I hope you enjoyed it! :)
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@BarbaraK-S These are all questions that will need to be answered in the investigation so it's great that you've thought about these! For learners wondering the same thing, wait and see if these questions are answered in week 2 of the course!
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@DorothyKing - sex can be determined through DNA analysis! However, in some cases, DNA may not be present or it may be degraded and, therefore, DNA analysis won't be possible. In forensic investigations, multiple pieces of evidence will be gathered to ensure a more accuate conclusion! I hope this helps :)
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Hi @AnnaLuciaRivieri - it sounds like you will have a lot of knowledge and experience to share with the learners on the course! I look forward to reading your comments :)
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Hi @KayLawrence - I'm looking forward to your contribution to course! I hope you enjoy it! :)
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@BarbaraK-S I would agree with you and say this skull is male! The eye sockets appear square, along with the chin, and the shape of the jaw and forehead also point towards being a male! Thanks for your contribution :)
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@JoanneKiggins Brilliant - Thank you for sharing!
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Interesting observation @LynneT - this may well have been possible! There are a few examples of orthopaedic surgical devices being used for human identification in the past!
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@CathaleenFinnegan - Exactly that! Measurements from a wide range of humans have been taken as part of studies and research which have allowed clear guides to be created. These will help specialists determine the depths used!
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Great question - thank you for sharing Roz! The depth of the markers would change depending on ethnicity and sex and specialists will refer to guides and tables (created from years of studies and research) to help them determine which depths to use!
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No need to apologise for asking a very valid question @BarbaraK-S - as bones take a long time to decompose skeletons may remain present for a large number of years and, therefore, can be used in human identification for years after death. In this case, where the body had undergone the adipocere formation process, the soft tissue would have had to been removed...
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@BrianScobie DNA can be extracted from bones so this may have been the case here! Can you think of what else could have been used to obtain DNA from?
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@DianeMackay These are all very possible and it's great to see you thinking beyond the evidence!
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Good observations @CarolGuy - keep them coming!
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Great observation, Janet - As there are little structures which help shape certain features such as noses, these may not be the most accurate depictions. However, information such as ethnicity can help specialists figure out what these features would have looked like!
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@JoanneKiggins You are right - there are around 43 muscles in the human face (although this may vary depending on the source of information). The muscles mentioned are the muscles which form the facial structure so some smaller ones aren't mentioned.
Also, one thing to remember is that a lot of these are paired muscles and are, therefore, on both the left...
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@DavidGamon Some guesswork does go into it but, if available, other evidence may give clues to how these features should look (such as ethnicity)!
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@LynneT It is incredible how much forensic science has developed - even in the last 50 years - for example, DNA profiling only was developed in the 1980s! It will be interesting to see what developments will happen in near future!
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Great example @DonnaHuntriss - I believe you are referring to the murder of Lynda Mann and Dawn Ashworth. You can read more about this case and Alex Jeffreys (the man who develop DNA profiling) in this article: https://bit.ly/1TTUto6
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@DavidGamon It's the strongest muscle as it has the ability to exert the most force!
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@CathaleenFinnegan - a great point! Ear shape can't be determined by skeletal remains so other evidence found would influence how these were depicted (such as ethnicity)! You are right that ears are thought to be unique but they may not be as essential in the identification process than other features!
Side note
On the topic of unique ears, there has been... -
Hi Manon! That sounds great - I'm sure you will have lots to contribute to the course so please share your views throughout the course! :)
