Maureen Holmes
I am a retired high school teacher. I love learning and I am interested in art, music, dance, history, people. the world . I have always felt a connection with The Quakers .
Location I am from Liverpool and was brought up a Catholic . I now attend St Helen’s Meeting , Merseyside . I love arts and People .
Activity
-
It does Carol you are right.
-
That’s so well put Gillian. I think it will one day happen again. People need hope . The virus is highlighting the plight of poor people all over the world. More people may be drawn to The Society of Friends again .,
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Kevin Camp
As a working class Northern lass I think the class system has not changed that much so Quakers are still referred to as an odd sect by many. Maybe we are still controlled by the ideology of the ruling classes.. May be we are still up against it. Many working class are well educated now but many deny their roots. I do respect Quakers for accepting everyone as...
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Maureen Holmes
Thank you Ben I wish I knew more I am humbled by you and the other professors. I’ll remember that now .
-
Thats good news Caroline . I hope you find what you are searching for. Have a happy life . It’s awful for the whole world this terrible virus . It will pass or we will find a vaccine and if not we will contain it. It’s certainly changing us. Stay safe and well.
Maureen. -
Yes Roger it may just be a story but I hope it was a related conversation. I empathise with Penne who was quiet a dandy from paintings I have seen of him before he joined the Friends. Fox would want him to make up his own mind. Other stories suggest Fox was a more sensitive man than his 17th century preaching suggests. We only have the journals written so long...
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Maureen Holmes
That is a really good and important observation Caroline. I think whoever we are speaking about when it’s abstract and personal it is difficult to explain why a particular word is chosen. Even people who wrote scripture or study theology questions would have problems in describing “God.” Or why they use the word to describe such an abstract It’s quite right...
-
That’s a beautifully expressed observation.
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
It was an amazing journey and I would love to carry on studying The Society of Friends and related studies. I will certainly look at this page again and the recommended books and resources . I will also go back in case I have left any chats out .
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I found it hard thinking so deeply but what a rewarding three weeks. The 1st week with the background history was particularly fascinating . What hard times . All that suffering ,do we ever learn ? I think it’s as turbulent now even though our country has improved and is more tolerant. Quaker values are so fundamentally important still . George Fox what an...
-
Thank you Caroline for getting in touch. It is great that we started at one end of the religious spectrum with all the show, pomp and ceremony . Lots of beautiful outward things but we never found that love and light before until we came across a group who showed us another inward way of seeing what we needed. The testimonies of the Quakers are fundemental...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
What I found most surprising was George foxes radical spirituality and how quickly he converted so many thousands in the North. This was and still is a very powerful message. The very idea of the light within and you as a means of your own salvation is a transforming message. I am also amazed by the ability of Quakers to adapt and change when necessary....
-
Hello Miriam
I hope you are safe and well . Well we are all on this journey and spirituality is needed for peoples wellbeing now more than ever. I hope you find the light you seek. This has been a great course.and you will have plenty to think about to help you . You will certainly be stretched . I am not the soul of brevity and I find it hard to fit all my... -
Maureen Holmes made a comment
What a great course . It filled in all the gaps for me . Things have changed dramatically in the last 400 Years. The language and dress code of friends is far more relaxed just the same as everyone else's. I do think that friends still aspire to simplicity and to avoid materialism for humanistic and environmental good .
I personally think that the...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
By 1652 Quakers had :
1 Able leaders
2 High membership in the North
3 Their reputation travelled before them due to Fox’s preaching
4. A mission to convert England and beyond.With a clear structure in place, more pragmatic ideas emerged and Quaker strength grew. Their beliefs of the light within and that salvation was a possibility for each individual...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Spiritual equality is not the same as social equality but they are intimately related . Margaret Fell was a prolific writer on the subjects ,especially the spiritual aspects of equality for women as ministers in Quakerism. She was essential to the establishment of the Quakers as a sect which is still actively striving for equality. Her ideas and those of other...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Thank you Betty, Stuart and Ben .
What a trio Fell, Howgill and Fox were. Powerful characters in their own right but together transformationally powerful in Quaker and society in general. They were instrumental in social change then and now. They certainly set out a direction for the future of Quakers . Fox the charismatic visionary zealot, Howgill the...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Thank you Betty Stuart and Ben .
What a phenomenal woman . -
Maureen Holmes made a comment
On reflection all three accounts are about the realisation that Christ /God is within each individual to speak to their own heart and soul , their own condition. We can all if we choose listen to the light within we do not need to take the words of others to explain the light we can listen to authenticity within ourselves. All three had different personalities...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
It is interesting that George Fox does not mention this in his journal but conversion is a personal thing it was her recollection of how she felt at that time . It sounded very simple and more matter of fact when spoken. She was an inspirational women. Her words are less extreme than in George Foxes Journal. I would think that her skills with people would be...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Many year have passed when Margaret Fell wrote this touching account of her conversion through George Fox’s preaching . It’s a very dramatic account, “ Cutting and Opening”’ an absolute transformation for her , “like thieves we had taken the scriptures in words but know nothing of them in ourselves.” She relates he spoke from Scripture to start , “He is not a...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I think George Fox went to Swarthmore Hall to help spread his mission. He would have known from travelling religious preachers and groups like the seekers, that it was an important Family/ House and esteemed by Puritans such as J. Naylor. Fox also felt the area was ready for a revolutionary message.
Judge Fell was away and Margaret out; she looked after...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
A very detailed description of his travels and the people he met from Kendal to Ulverston . It suggests religion was a vital part of life for high and low. A time of absolute religious , political and social turmoil. Sometimes his details about people are empathetic , at other times fervent and absolutely damning. He talks about the man offering a tobacco...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
It’s around about journey. All the stops near rivers and the sea would always be in view from the tops of hills . I think he probably kept what’s now called Morcambe Bay in view as the place he would find a great people . For me this is a more populated area than further North into Westmorland ,now Cumbria. Lots of remote little places and small villages and...
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Jan Deurwaarder
I think you could write a book Jan . They demographics would be fascinating . I would enjoy finding out about the people in those areas . No census then maybe you could try and find out from other sources it may be possible.
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I really look forward to learning more about Margaret Fell. It will be fascinating to learn about Quakerism as a global faith and to look at the ideas of modern Quakers too. It’s been a great course and will go on learning about the Quakers . Thank you to the tutors . I look forward to meeting the rest of the team.
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Maureen Holmes
@JanB the That’s a good idea Jan . I’ll ask if I am stuck . Thank you
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Maureen Holmes
@CJM Good luck
-
I love this quote because like William Penn I love different things in dress. I am getting there I now realise, especially since lockdown , that I don’t need those things . It’s part of trying to see what matters most in our lives. It’s part of being the best we can, looking after others and protecting the environment , searching for what’s right . Simpler...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Thanks again to all the leaders on the course. My favourite section in week 2 was The importance of the North and North West in the establishment of Quakerism. I have been to most of the places featured and was not aware of there significance. I will hopefully visit again from a very different viewpoint.
The Spiritual Day out made me uncomfortable at first...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I came to the course because as an attender I wanted to learn more about the history of the Quakers and their historical background . I’d read various books and pamphlets but it was fragmented knowledge. The course has consolidated and brought things together for me. I knew about George Fox’s missionary itinerancy but I did not realise how significant the...
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Nicole F
Yes you have a good points to consider there Nicole. We are using technology now and there are 3,000 people on the course. Maybe the founding mothers and fathers would not approve but I think they accepted that times change . It would make for serious discussion and I think they would have approved of that. I didn’t feel comfortable at first with the exercise...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Quakerism in the 1650s was most popular in the North . The majority of the early missionaries and converts came from this region. Fox came out of jail in 1651. He had been preaching the Quaker message but those interested were few and far between. Greater numbers in the North were searching for another way of expressing their beliefs. Fox convinced many of...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Howgill was looking back when he wrote this passage to when Quakerism was established in 1652. It’s a celebration of what happened and what was achieved by George Fox , Howgill himself and other missionaries who spread the word such as his friend Edward Burroughs who died in jail in 1662.
It is full of references from scriptures. Christian scripture was the...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
A beautiful natural passage creates a sense of peace and love. It really sound like it comes from a learned person who knew the old and New Testament word for word rather like George Fox himself who also knew these books so well but put across in a gentler way. No talk of others being lost or damned. They had left the cross but they had found “him our souls...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
This passage sounds like the words of an educated man, convinced by G Fox’s preaching. He says that Northerners were considered”outcasts” and relatively uneducated compared to other areas. Maybe they were cut off by rulers who had gained power in the civil war. Sincere people there was “ true love”in their community. They desired to be closer to the “living...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I would imagine a spiritual day out today presented like a Well-being and Spirituality Event . there would be speakers talking about spirituality and wellness .There would be a Quaker speaker and representatives from other religions .
You might come away with a favourite speaker and a new view of spirituality which helps you in life to experience a light...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Spirituality has always been a need of human kind but as religions have developed spirituality was more related to places of worship and outward practices.The inner exploration of life, existence and God often lost in the ceremony.
At a time of great suffering in England, in the civil war years ,the population needed spirituality.. Many had rejected the...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
The idea of the inward light is the essence of Quakerism as apposed to outward worship in churches with the priest as the mediator to God and salvation..
George Fox preached to sympathetic groups who had already rejected church and had begun to practise their meetings for worship in local homes. Their services were simplified in comparison to the churches...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
According to George fox’s journals he was compelled after climbing Pendle Hill to travel north. He took a roundabout course through Yorkshire to Westmorland meeting sympathetic puritans and seekers who directed him to other families and communities .in the North West. Itinerancy was central to the spread of Quakerism . It wasn’t easy as George Fox was attacked...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Itinerancy
Itinerancy has been the predominant way of spreading religions convictions since ,early Christianity. Jesus Christ.,Luke, Paul ,prophets and disciples spread Christianity this way.
.
George Fox, a determined visionary spread his convictions through his travels and preaching. This had advantages in the establishment of Quakerism. He was directed... -
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I have enjoyed week 1 and just started on week two. It’s a great course. It’s teaching me some ideas about the use of resources to do research and cross referencing. The technical side. Is still difficult for me but its great I’ve learned about hashtags and I can also see all my inputs together now. That’s a big breakthrough . I still find it difficult to...
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Maureen Holmes
I will look at that James thanks
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Considering 17th century language before examining George fox’s revelations and his preaching on Pendle Hill and Sedbergh is sensible. Language changes fast. If people had access to books; it was usually a bible. Church attendance was frequent and scriptures familiar to them. Religious references in speech were the norm.
George Fox’s visions started in 1647...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
The summing up in itself clarified a lot of areas I was not sure about . It’s brought everything together and things are becoming a lot clearer in my mind, even the use of the hashtags, almost . Thanks again to all the people who help run this massive undertaking especially the lecturers. It’s a big class and sounds like it’s growing.
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
The language George Fox used was dramatic and direct with many references to the bible.and the Book of Revelations ,which he knew so well. He had been shown on Pendle Hill an area before him in which many people would hear his message and would turn from the “dark to the light”. “A great people dressed in white raiment near a river.” George Fox started to...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
Yorkshire and Cumbria.are beautiful places. I didn’t know how important they were to the growth of Quakerism. I think to live there in the 17th century at the time of George Fox’s travels it must have been a hard remote place to access. There would have been no roads, just tracks. George Fox and his travelling ministers were determined to spread the word of...
-
I feel I would be too Miriam . I enjoyed the outward things. Of Catholicism the art, music, sculpture, beautiful buildings, the , incense, the flowers . The ritual , the robes . I still like those thing but where was a loving God in this . It’s all outward show only .I never experienced that connection with the light until the inward Quaker silent , simple...
-
Indeed they were. They did as they said lived their beliefs
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Lisa Wood
I loved that book Susan I read it as a child . Thank you for reminding me. I will definitely read it again now. There was also Lorna Doon I think I’ll look at that again too. You often look at things very differently as an adult. They were Romaticised ideas I suppose so we will have to see what we think now after rereading.
-
Maureen Holmes replied to Ben Pink Dandelion
Wonderful news. Thank you good man for your leadership and to the great leaders and colleagues around you x
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
What an amazing resource. It’s a gigantic library. I loved the photographs of Yorkshire and all the places in Cumbria I’ve visited . I first became interested in Quakerism when I often passed the meeting house in Keswick. I kept saying I’ll go in. I never did . Someday when this virus passes I will go back and go in. I often walked passed a beautiful meeting...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
It’s been a great first week . It’s been difficult because of the technical aspects of the course for me . I am not very good with computers or I phones. I can’t find things without a long trawl . I also put some responses in the wrong place and didn’t know how to move them. I couldn’t complete my profile it just would not let me but the main thing was the...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
In the discussions some feel George Fox was arrogant. There are other ways of looking at his character and message especially after his revelation.
He was young tall , charismatic a good speaker and obviously intelligent. From an early age the religious factions offered him no loving God to help his condition and experiences..He knew there was something...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I learned a lot about the English civil war. Like any civil war it was brutal and there were no winners. The ordinary people lost everything their lives , their property and their possessions.
The major religions offered them little comfort or hope. The Catholic’s and Protestants had persecuted each other . All they offered the people was outward power and...
-
I think he was right and I would have been convinced.
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
When I read this passage I feel that George Fox suddenly saw more clearly the way forward . He had been depressed when he contemplated Christianity . He realised no amount of learning or any priest could bring God to people. He had discussed his feelings with the clergy and many had rejected his ideas cruelly . They did not speak to his spirituality or his...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
It is moving to hear this passage spoken. George Fox must have felt let down by his experiences with religion and very depressed. Religion was not giving him any sense of the Power that spoke within him.. He realised that no amount of education could qualify anyone to speak as God .”He rejected the idea that clergy only could minister for God nothing could...
-
Maureen Holmes made a comment
I did not realise how dreadful the English civil war was. I realise now it was a truly brutal and devastating thing. This passed me in history lessons..
The civil war I am most aware about today is that in Syria. A society has been destroyed ,it’s people set against each other. Indeed,” The world is Turned upside down in civil war.”
The causes of the...
