The William
I have interests in literature, history and the study of religion.
I'm retired.
Location Norfolk
Activity
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
@JulieF That's the one, Julie :-D Thank you.
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
@JulieF I don't think it is an overstatement, Julie. It is part of the same mindset. In looking at what the english "did" (slavery, colonialism/imperialism) the moral question "how could they do such a thing?" seems often to be missed.
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The William replied to Diane O'Connor
@RitaWood My grandfather's funeral journey in Manchester coincided with a practice ride out by the local mounted police. They formed up around us, stopped all traffic at junctions, saw us through red lights, and prevented any over-taking :-D
Holding collars is a new one on me. I did a quick trawl on the Tinterweb. Sifting through the inevitable dross it... -
The William replied to Meg L
@RitaWood Check out "panentheist" - something of god in everything. It is an attractive concept.
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@RitaWood Absolutely agree. Which is why I get upset when I learn of women undermining women (as DW did).
And even more upset when I hear from a friend from uni (early 70s) that (having spent two weeks looking after her parents) she had to return home because her husband had invited birdwatching friend to stay and he needed her to housekeep, cook, clean etc.... -
The William replied to PN S
@RobertBrunskill Prnounced "Sloth", of course :-)
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@AndrewLacey Thanks for remembering, Andrew :-) How cheerfully we fall into paranoia in times of trouble.
if there is not a spoof report from Walsh, there ought to be! -
The William replied to Frank Pearson
@RobHolmes @FrankPearson hear, hear!
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The William replied to PN S
@FrankPearson @MegL @JulieF Mike Harding, commenting on his birth place of Crumpsall, Manchester said, "If the universe had piles, that's where they'd be."
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The William replied to The William
@JoëlleBoehm You have contributed to my journey Joelle. You (we) ask questions - and without questions I (we) can't sharpen my (our) thinking.
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The William replied to PN S
@StephanieTrasoff Thanks for this, Stephanie. Yes, it is important - and neglected and I don't understand why. A comment on the website confirmed my fears: "Around the world, girls and women resort to using rags, mattress stuffing, banana leaves, feathers, and even cow dung to manage their menstruation." I suspect that poor women in C18-19 had to resort to...
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The William replied to PN S
@FrankPearson Isn't it? ;-)
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The William replied to The William
@JoëlleBoehm One of the things I have particularly enjoyed about this course is the way everyone is happy to chip in with information and links to help us all progress. I am glad to have helped here :-)
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The William replied to Meg L
@AndrewLacey :-D
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The William replied to Philip de Ste Croix
@MegL I think we use it in English as "mores" (pr. more-ays)
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The William replied to Heather Daley
@AndrewLacey Thank heavens for diligent editors - and mentors :-) "baseborn" = illegitimate?
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The William replied to The William
@VickiKenny She really came out of herself (is that the right phrase?) there. She had a good circle of friends, scored for the bowls, was (allegedly) a demon on games nights, baked bread for a neighbour, and provided a refuge for her nephew.
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The William replied to Meg L
@KeithCostelloe The "hospital" referred to wasn't - thank god - a work house.
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The William replied to PN S
@FrankPearson Perhaps they used a "soil box" rather than a hole. Easy to compost - or just dump.
Curious that everyone knows that Romans used bits of sponge on a stick for bottom cleaning but we (I) have no idea what was used before torn-up newspaper (pre-lavatory paper: anyone else remember shiny Izal paper?).
It may be unseemly for a male to raise this... -
The William replied to PN S
@PNS "sanitization of history" - nice one, Paul :-D I'm going to miss your wit (and wisdom) when this course ends!
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The William replied to Lesley Carloss
I must leap to his defence: it is a commonly held fallacy that a bulbous red nose indicates heavy drinking. It doesn't: I think it is the same sort of chemical imbalance that causes severe acne in young people.
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The William replied to Jayne Buchanan
@JayneBuchanan I think he couldn't get in because he couldn't prove his service without the testimony of his (dead) officers.
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The William made a comment
D is a master of detail, particularly her description of the bird. But we see it too in the descriptions of the clothes.
Why did she want to "try" (test?) the beggar? And what a blunt question! Perhaps it didn't carry the full pejorative sense it does today.
The old sailor has found himself victim of the C19 version of a poverty trap - entitled to benefit... -
The William replied to Rob Holmes
equivalent to £4,400 in today's values https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency-converter
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The William made a comment
It is clear that D really does care for the people around her. (Any evidence of W sharing that? Not so far, other than using them as source material.)
I assume D knew her neighbour was bed-bound. Sending some meat was generous but as nothing compared with the reciprocal gift of honey. It is guilt that drives her across the road to visit.
I'm finding it hard... -
The William replied to Mary Jones
@MaryJones "No credit is given, but then they were women." Not good enough, Mary. The women in Shelly's circle were writing in their own (er..) right. The problem for D&M is that they were women in the company of what William became - repressive, patriarchal (@PaulS), and arrogant.
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
@CaroleSturgiss "Living amongst poets must have rubbed off on her" - they probably repressed her talent :-(
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The William replied to PN S
@PNS You're going to be popular ;-D
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The William made a comment
Too many questions for 1200 words!
W's poems present the encounter and its continuing resonance as entirely personal, unshared, possibly unsharable. It is very introspective but lacks any explicit reflection.
D's account so overflows with enthusiasm that it would have been impossible to keep it private.
Although W uses the details of where ("close to water,... -
@PNS Was Shelly's circle no different?
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@PNS Plus ça change...?
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The William replied to Ruth Jellings
@RitaWood @AndrewLacey @RuthJellings I'm sure I've read a poem (possibly prose) of D trying to write a daffodil poem (or perhaps the journal) and she keeps getting interrupted by her brother. (Any clues?)
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Yes, I find the switches in tone(? mood?) very striking.
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The William made a comment
The journal reads as if she is re-running the events in her mind's eye.
The human references feel like intrusions into the journey through the landscape. Their social circle includes people they visit and over-night with (Clarkson) and others (Luff) they feel able to call in on unannounced. Donson's is an inn and D is familiar with the landlady.
Do they only... -
The William replied to Heather Daley
@RobHolmes When they buy a tea-towel?
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@RandalOulton Less well known poems in "Lyrical Ballads" - "The shirt I ironed", "On having just finished the washing up", "Washing line on a windy day"
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The William replied to Victoria Mason-Robbie
@DavidFahy and in many other parts of the world. It is interesting to speculate how this impulse survived a diaspora lasting thousands of years. Most examples are of isolated hands, occasionally overlapping. Cueva de las Manos is particularly interesting because of the layer upon layer of hands.
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@ClaireW Absolutely, Clare. I hadn't appreciated the precarious situation single women. She simply couldn't afford to be the wild child any longer. I'm sad that WW allowed that to happen.
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The William replied to Diane O'Connor
@DianeO'Connor Possibly. Or have we lost the sense of sharing in mortality? How many people contemplate their own deaths?
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The William replied to Philip de Ste Croix
@DianeO'Connor And ironing would have been by flat irons heated in front of a fire. Ironing (on the table? how was it done?) would need to take place close to the fire to keep the irons handy. All this on a summer's day. I hadn't fully appreciated D's comment that it was "hot"!
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@SueSpencer Doesn't that make it twice as hard? ;-)
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The William replied to Dave Rawlings
@AndrewLacey @DaveRawlings I took it to be a reference to their use of initials rather than their explicit names. If you don't know what the initials stand for you can't identify the individuals.
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The William replied to Jessica De Waal
@JessicaDeWaal @DeniseWest "We should thank Jessica and Denise for that post" - hear, hear
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@AlysonKelman @LesleyCarloss one can buy similar versions without the frame as a block, glued across the top. Had a couple in the past, one with inspiring quotations, one with sudoku, one with cartoons. All one needs is a desk :-) These days I work on my lap.
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The William replied to Meg L
@AndrewLacey "Dear kindly Sergeant Krupke you gotta understand / It's just our bringin' up-ke that gets us out of hand..."
http://www.songlyrics.com/west-side-story/gee-officer-krupke-lyrics/ -
The William replied to Victoria Mason-Robbie
@VictoriaMason-Robbie @PhilipdeSteCroix (see my comment above) I think the woman was a stranger who had arrived with the Fair.
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The William replied to Meg L
And what do we imagine happens to homeless people today?
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The William replied to Philip de Ste Croix
@FrankPearson Was it that the ironing needed doing? Or that there was a funeral to attend? I think she might have prioritised both of these ahead of fell walking.
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The William replied to Diane O'Connor
I remember when all passers-by would stop and men remove their hats. It would have been unthinkable to over-take a funeral cortège. Now people seem indifferent.
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The William replied to Jessica De Waal
As with Denise's point (above), I had not appreciated the poignancy of D being orphaned and childless. Thank you.
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The William replied to Denise West
"this could have been her lot" - excellent point, Denise. Missed that aspect of D's situation.
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The William replied to Heather Daley
I think (see above) she was a stranger. And, until relatively recently, turning out for any funeral was the norm in many communities.
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The William replied to Dorothy Ackroyd
Funerals aren't occasions for misery. (D is moved less by the death as her being without kin.) It was a good day for a funeral.
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The William made a comment
The men go off walking; Dorothy takes time out from a huge (huge) pile of ironing to go to a "pauper's funeral" ("buried by the parish"), so someone of no great account (certainly not for WW&Co). The funeral is of an unnamed (unknown, homeless, part of the travelling Fair?) woman. John Dawson provides the starting point and, probably, the refreshment. I get...
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@CaroleSturgiss Not sure if I ought to [Like] that having already been accused of misogyny :-(
In truth, I had a colleague who frequently used the phrase and I always found it very hurtful. His wife was lovely. -
@RandalOulton As if... :-) Too busy treading mud in.
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@LesleyCarloss Just think what your curated archive would look like!
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@SueSpencer Tennis playing as well? Ah, me.
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The William replied to PN S
@KayStopforth My apologies
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The William replied to PN S
@PNS @SueSpencer "Not a cabinet of curiosities but an emporium of commodity fetishism." One of your best that, Paul! And I love the idea of an ironic tea-towel. Once dishwashers become ubiquitous shall all tea-towels become ironic? :-)
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The William replied to PN S
@SueSpencer Definite stronghold potential :-)
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The William replied to PN S
@PNS It was not a strong recommendation of the novel, Paul, just one that sprang to mind thinking of a place as a stronghold. It is a coincidence that the stronghold turns out to be in Cumbria.
A mutating virus is an obvious chime :-) -
@PNS We could run with this argument, Paul :-) Workhouse records - who counts? when? who do they count? If the records reflect a manager's concerns, and he is being paid by the inmate, numbers may be inflated (leave deaths and departures out until the month end). There will be inmates being uncounted (girls) or double counted (as women).
It is not just our... -
"not by what she writes but rather the way in which she writes it" - absolutely. That's the window we can glance through.
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"it has a lovely lake and mountain scene on the cover" - you're such a softie! ;-) One my Thingstododuringhavingtostayinside was to do handwriting practice. I can shape letters in my head but the hand doesn't behave as instructed. Most disheartening. Perhaps I'll try again. (I kid myself that if I bought a nice fountain pen it would be easier...)
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Have I missed a reading somewhere?
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@CaroleSturgiss I'm glad you felt able to exchange email details. I think a private message facility would enhance this FL platform.
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Aren't all records "subjective"? Deliberately engaging with someone else's world can be interesting and enlightening - so long as one remembers to re-engage the critical faculties afterwards.
I love the idea of D as a wild child :-) How come she lost it, becoming an unpaid housekeeper? -
The William made a comment
The closet I came to regular writing was when I edited a monthly village magazine. I have blogged but got fed up with lack of comments (probably reflecting a lack of readers!) I write to friends far more frequently these days, usually a mixture of journal, reflections, concerns.
Commenting on my FL courses has given me a different experience. I may turn to... -
The William replied to PN S
@SueSpencer I don't know about Paul but your account made my heart sink.
How substantial was the shop's construction? Perhaps they are secretly preparing to close off the village from the impending collapse of english civilisation. Anyone remember the novel "Death of Grass"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Grass -
The William replied to Jayne Buchanan
@JayneBuchanan I've just learned from @AndrewLacey that they walked from Sockburn (home of the Hutchinsons, William later married Mary H) to Grasmere. It's about 80 miles!
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The William replied to The William
Sockburn to Grasmere is about 80 miles! Respect!
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@CaroleSturgiss "come the spring..." she'll have the garden to dig... :-D
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The William replied to Jayne Buchanan
@JayneBuchanan Hardly offended, Jayne! (I did add a laughing face.) (Though your comment "men being the more adventurous" is decidedly sexist. Shame on you! @SueSpencer will definitely have something to say about that!)
"Ooo look, Dorothy. It's a blizzard! Lets walk!" -
The William replied to Heather Daley
@RobHolmes And another, when asked for directions, says, "Well I wouldn't start from here..."
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@PNS [vomits!!] :-D
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The William replied to PN S
@PNS "inner rebellious teenager" Nice one :-)
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The William replied to PN S
@VickiKenny I'm appreciating his skill as a poet but liking him as a person rather less.
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The William replied to Claire W
@PNS Delighted you enjoyed it. My Desert Island Discs choice.
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I can't get my head around doing more than one thing at a time. Given the list of chores - and the effort involved - I would just succumb to overload and shut down - "fairly useless" sums it up nicely.
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That's a story I'd like to hear :-) Fit it in on Friday?
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
@SueSpencer I think your points are perfectly valid, Sue. I think we can make a distinction between deliberate art (intended to evoke a response in others) and deliberate damage (for trivial and selfish purposes).
I do wonder what the reactions of their neighbours would have been: the rocks (etc.) belonged to them, not to these incomers laying claims. -
@JoëlleBoehm Really sorry, Joelle, thoughtless of me.
"exceptionally worthy even if she has no personal private life"
"Worthy" in this context would mean "a very good thing to do", in a self-sacrificing way.
"Worthwhile" would suggest it was also good for her.
My comment was meant to point out that the benefit of her actions was one-way only: only W... -
but perhaps her journals offer us a truer picture...
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"live the life they dreamed of, just walking and writing all day long" - when she is not doing the big wash, the ironing, making curtains, cooking, feeding the fires, looking after her nephews and nieces - and, no doubt - all the parish works expected of ladies.
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"worthy" - not worthwhile...
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The William made a comment
"With her brother" or "for her brother"? Sounds like unpaid domestic help. "Generous" (giving up her bedroom) or down-trodden? I'm a little taken aback by the uncritical appraisal of Prof. Ruston.
It was good to see more than one fire in operation. (I am terribly nesh and couldn't work in a cold place.)
I'm also disappointed that D justified writing because... -
The William replied to Sue Spencer
@CaroleSturgiss That beats my wax limbs :-D
"a clock made of finger bones but it has no hands". Oh, come on! -
The William replied to Heather Daley
@RobHolmes Absolutely :-)
I had a friend who maintained that most places didn't have fixed names until the mapping surveys started. He believed that the more bizarre place names (Bishops Bottom, Deep Crack, Devils Hole) were actually made up by locals on the spot, probably in the pub, when questioned by the surveyors.
This has just brought to mind another... -
The William replied to Meg L
defo :-)
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The William replied to Claire W
From poetry to music (especially such luminaries as Finzi and Vaughan Williams): these rippling discussions just get better and better :-D
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The William replied to Annette Payling
@JoëlleBoehm "the members were not so intrusive relatively to other local residents" - possibly, but they were certainly setting themselves apart from them, and that undermines the principles of their romantic manifesto.
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The William replied to Victoria Mason-Robbie
Interesting observations, Victoria. (My image is from the Cueva de las Manos (hands) in Argentina.) It is important to remember they are not decoration (cave wallpaper) but an act of significance. Sometimes the significance resides in the act itself - some images are in such remote locations they were probably intended never to be seen again. They might be an...
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
"I had a rant" - yep, Sue :-)
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
There was/is an artist who specialised in ephemeral pieces - blankets of leaves, pinned together by thorns, floating in a stream. Less intrusive? Possibly.
I quite enjoy the Gormley figures. There are another set in Austria placed at a specific altitude across a landscape. (Some of them are dressed by publicity hungry ski operators!)
How do you feel about... -
The William replied to Sue Spencer
"On NOT naming places" - like it, Sue :-)
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The William replied to Dave Rawlings
I think you are spot on there, Dave. Have a look at the comments (above) by @PhilipdeSteCroix and @AnnettePayling
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
@SueSpencer @CaroleSturgiss This has reminded me of the rather unnerving offerings of wax limbs left in shrines in Spain (back in the 70s).
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The William replied to Sue Spencer
@SueSpencer If you visit the less frequented (off the beaten track) stone circles in Derbyshire you will find offerings. I've seen coins, marbles, shells, even a rosary. Embrace such moments as a different understanding of the landscape, just as valid, not eerie - and never let it spoil your walk :-)
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The William replied to Meg L
"sidetracked" :-) But I think you are right that the whole intellectual/emotional underpinning of this activity is inconsistent with their purported values.
